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Talk:Fighter
Fighters vs Axe Fighters I don't know if any more discussion needs to made, but I figure there's good reasons for both keeping Fighters and Axe Fighters separate and merging them. Separate: Mainly because the class names are distinctively different. Yes, they are both "fighters", but the extra word matters. Merge: The two classes are practically the same class- both primarily axe users with similar promotions (Warrior, Hero/Mercenary). Which is probably the same reason why the FE5!Sister is included in the Shaman page. On a similar note, I think Bow Fighter definitely needs to be made separate from the Archer class. Since FE4 and FE5 already have Archer classes, which are either enemy-only or unused. Aveyn Knight 20:03, 17 May 2009 (UTC) ---- FE8's promotion of Fighters into Heroes has nothing to do with FE5's Axe Fighters promoting into Mercs, it's just a coincidence because Heroes needed another class to promote from. Take a look at every fighter that has been in the series, they're all bulky men, and their battle sprites reflect it. Take a look at Othin and Halvan, they are NOTHING like the Fighters we have seen, they are just slightly more built than their Sword Fighter brothers, because wielding axes makes them tougher because they are heavier. Fighters are very slow, and their animations show this. Axe Fighters are only slightly slower than Sword Fighters, and they fight very similar, with speedy animations rather than slow ones. And most of all, Axe Fighters promote into Mercs, not warriors, the biggest difference that separates them. Is Dagda a merc? No? Is Dagda a bulky man? Yes? If Dagda wasn't already promoted, he would probably be a Fighter. Bow Fighters aren't much different from Archers to make it worth separating them. Marth Koopa 20:18, 17 May 2009 (UTC) :OK. Biggest hole I can see is that the Axe Fighter under the Axe Fighter name is not Thracia exclusive, Johalva is also a Axe Fighter, and he looks suspiciously similar to the Fighters of other games. (I suspect the change in Thracia was made because they looked too much like Bandits, but that is just me speculating) Also, Dagda is irrelevent here, his Warrior class is a promoted Bandit, which is not an Axe Fighter. As for Bow Fighters and Archers....How can they be the same thing when they are different classes in the same game? (As Aveyn Knight noted, they are unused in Seisen no Keifu and a enemy exclusive class in Thracia 776)--Otherarrow 20:30, 17 May 2009 (UTC) Dagda is not a bandit, as you should know in FE5, more than 1 class can promote into the same class (Machua, for example), he fits the Fighter type more than the Bandit type. Show me the official Nintendo translation that calls Johalva an Axe Fighter. Right, he's a Fighter. Bow Fighters and Archers are the same thing, they don't have any differences like Fighters and Axe Fighters. Marth Koopa 20:33, 17 May 2009 (UTC) :Asking for offical Nintindo translations for anything other than Characters, nations, and a few key items is kinda pointless, as they have no translation for the like because there is no need for it. Also, in Thracia 776, the Bandit class promotes to the Warrior class, the only classes in the Jugdral games who can promote to more than one class according to character promoting are Mages (Mage Knights and Mage Fighters) and Sword Fighters (Swordmasters and Heroes). :Look for yourself: http://serenesforest.net/fe5/class_intro.html --Otherarrow 20:39, 17 May 2009 (UTC) ::So we're basing our stuff on FAN translations, OK then... Yes, the Bandit class promotes into the Warrior class, but if there were any playable Fighters, they would also promote into Warriors. Dagda would definitely be a Fighter if he wasn't already promoted. :::Because there is NO OTHER translation maybe? If they released FE4 and FE5 internationaly, why did I not hear of it? Also, note that the "Fighter" class does not appear in Seisen no Keifu or Thracia 776, which is likely due to the fact that having a class called "Fighter" alongside all these Bow Fighters and Sword Fighters would be odd. Also, Dagda is an ex-bandit, thus if he was not already promoted, he would likely be a bandit.--Otherarrow 20:53, 17 May 2009 (UTC) ::::Right. Keyword being EX-bandit, he would be a Fighter if not already promoted, because Dagda being a measly MOUNTAIN THIEF like Marty just wouldn't fit him. Marth Koopa 21:00, 17 May 2009 (UTC) :::::About Dagda, let's not argue about things that could have happened. I could just as equally say Areone started off as a Pegasus Rider. As for Johalva being an Axe Fighter, you don't need any official English names. You can just read the Japanese name for the class, which reads Akusufaitaa (sp?). I can't think of many names that could be, besides Axe Fighter. Archers have hats, Bow Fighters don't. Aveyn Knight 21:05, 17 May 2009 (UTC) ::::::So FE4's more "Fighter like" Axe Fighter and FE5's more "Myrmidon Sword Fighter like" Axe Fighter are both just that...Axe Fighters? Are the differences between the two enough to make an Axe Fighter page? And would the "Fighter like" Axe Fighter be included if we do make one, because if not, we would be spilting a class between games where they are identified as the same thing.--Otherarrow 21:29, 17 May 2009 (UTC) Ok, there is some extreme hypocrisy going on here. Bow Fighters and Archers are the same damn thing, they have the same stat types, the same character types (very average size people), the same promotions, they are the same. damn. thing, yet you separate them from archers? Then you classify FE5's Axe Fighters in with Fighters, when they are vastly different... different stat types, different character types (Axe Fighters being like Mercs, Heroes, and Forrests, which is around the sword fighter type, until you get into the GBA world where Myrms are little slimmer, and not the bulky type such as Fighters, Warriors, Berserkers, and Pirates), different promotions (FE8's promotion of Fighters into Heroes is completely irelivent, because Heroes needed something else to promote from and Fighters needed something else to promote to, it is merely a coincidence, see chart here http://www.gamefaqs.com/portable/gbadvance/file/921183/33030), they are very, very, very different, different enough that Axe Fighters should have their own page. Marth Koopa 20:51, 20 May 2009 (UTC) :Archers and Bow Fighters Are NOT the same thing. How can they be the same thing when both appear in the same game as different units? Besides, we have proven that Axe Fighters originated in Seisen no Keifu, where they are more or less identical to Fighters, making the Thracia 776 class the exception, not the rule. Anyway, by your logic we should split Shaman (which would create a total mess and we already decided not to do that), spilt Myrmidon/Sword Fighter (due to the second tier Gaiden class), spilt Sister/Cleric (due to the Thracia 776 class, often called Shaman), split Wyvern Rider/Dragon Knight (due to FE1/3/11 where they are a promoted class and thus not identical to the "typical" class), spilt Princess, Prince, Forest Knight, Baron, Bishop...The list goes on, and most of these spilts would reduced both the old and new articles to even smaller stubs, but the differences in these classes are about the same as, and even in some cases greater than, the differences between Fighter and one version of Axe Fighter.--Otherarrow 21:27, 20 May 2009 (UTC) ::I, for one, am happy that you DO split Archer and Bow Fighter, but you're being very hypocritical for not doing it with Axe Fighters, because they are completely different from Fighters other than the fact that they wield axes, while Bow Fighters and Archers are basically the same thing even though both exist in a single game. ::You SHOULD be splitting Shaman, because they are opposites (dark magic VS light magic?). ::(FE11 doesn't exist yet, FYI, remakes of games don't increase the numbering, they use the number of the game they remake), Wyvern riders and Dragon Riders are the same thing, Dragon was changed to Wyvern to avoid conflict and confusion in FE7's story. Marth Koopa 22:03, 20 May 2009 (UTC) :::OK. Naming thing was NOT what I was getting at with the Wyvern Riders. One is a first tier class, the other is a second tier class, thus they are different classes. (makes as much sense as your Axe Fighter reasoning) As for Archers and Bow Fighters, you even said that Archers are weaker than Bow Fighters, thus a "notable" difference in stats, as well as the difference in appearance (the hat), therefore they are different classes. (Again, how can they be the same thing when they are different classes in the same game? If a "Fighter" existed in the Jugdral setting alongside Axe Fighter, or even if Axe Fighter was that way from the start, I'd be happy to spilt. But this is not the case, and the "main game" in the Jugdral setting has them closer to Fighter anyway. No offense to Thracia 776, but it is often considered a sidegame to Seisen.) As for Shamans, you fail to consider the Thracia 776 class (whether or not it counts I don't know or care. It's too confusing as it is) and the Radiant Dawn class. And you failed to mention Bishops (Jugdral Bishops are quite different from other Bishops), Barons, Princes, Princesses, Great Knights, Forest Knights, Myrmidons, Great Lords, Master Lords...heck if your vague enough we can include Paladins, Heroes, Pegasus Knights (same reasoning as the Wyvern Rider above, only trade "FE1" with "FE5"), and Troubadours in this spilt fest as well!--Otherarrow 22:25, 20 May 2009 (UTC) I don't care about the other classes right now. I never said Archers were weaker, I have said their stats are the same, and the hat is meaningless. OMG GUY HAS A BANDANA MYRMS AREN'T MYRMS. You're still being utterly hypocritical by splitting Bow Fighters from Archers, but not Axe Fighters from Fighters, and the only way to settle is to put Bow Fighters in with Archers, or split Axe Fighters and Fighters.Marth Koopa 01:58, 21 May 2009 (UTC) :Thing about Guy is, he is never identified as anything other than a Myrmidon, and Rekka no Ken gave unique sprites to many of it's generic classed characters anyway. (Guy, Serra, Lucius, Rebecca, Hawkeye) Archers, on the other hand, are identifed as a separate class, has data as a separate class, and even has a difference in Stats (Before the Archer page was split, it noted that Archers were weaker than Bow Fighters). Axe Fighters, on the other hand, have nothing that distincts them from being Fighters, no proof that they were indended to be anything more than the local version of the axe wielding Fighter class from other games. (Again, the Thracia 776 class is the exception, not the rule. Also, Nolan seems like that type of (Axe) Fighter anyway, what with his "not as bulky as other axe wielders" appearance, which you claim as your proof that the classes are different, and his high speed and skill, the two stats that make the Thracia class "different" from the other Fighters and Axe Fighters. Nolan is idenfifed as only a Fighter btw.)--Otherarrow 08:40, 21 May 2009 (UTC)